Open in app

Sign in

Write

Sign in

House of Games #66 — What Is a Game?

Otto Wretling
39 min readMar 25, 2024

Welcome back to House of Games! In this episode, we try to answer the big questions; What is a game? Why do people make walking simulators? And lastly, What Remains of Elon Musk?

Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/house-of-games/message

Chapters

00:00 Episode Intro
00:29 Introducing the Theme; What Is a Game?
04:51 What Is a Game?
58:14 Reading a Comment
59:13 Episode Outro

Your Hosts and Their Games

Games

Movies and TV Shows

Transcript

[00:00:00] Episode Intro

[00:00:00] Rune: Halli, hello everyone and welcome to the most real game in town, House of Games. Today I’m joined by a man who does not identify himself as a video game/entertainment medium, Mr. Otto! But if that was not enough, he ain’t playing solo in this game we are currently living in. I’m here too. Enter the arena, Mr. Rune! But, before you dear listeners slash viewers wonder too much about what I’m a babbling about, let us play start on this week’s episode of House of Games.

[00:00:29] Introducing the Theme; What Is a Game?

[00:00:29] Otto: Welcome everyone to House of Games, and our newest episode. So, this time it’s actually take 2. We recorded and failed, but don’t worry, we’re here again just for you. Making sure that there is actually an episode every week. [00:01:00] So, yeah, this time I thought we was, we were gonna talk about the definition of a video game. What a game in itself is. So, I have an idea for myself, Rune, you, do you have an idea, or a guess, or what’s your definition of a game?

[00:01:19] Rune: No, and worth mentioning is that we are not recording the same episode that we did, the one that failed. This has happened in the past and then we just dropped it and moved on and we will probably revisit the one we recorded yesterday later on. And then we went through our document and it was, we both sort of laughed a little bit about this, this note that one of us wrote in episode 32, we had a guest who had made 200 games, and then in the notes, I, I, maybe, it was, someone, one of us had written, If this person had done 200 games, what is a game? And then, For example, I have made 4 games, and that took me, what, [00:02:00] 5, 6, 7 years. And how can a person make 200 games? Listen to that, episode 32. I forget this gentleman’s name on top of my head, but that was a fun episode. Nonetheless, it was a fun thing to read in the notes, and we had written that. What is a game? So, we thought, well, let’s make an episode about that. So, but, as we just discussed before we started recording, I can’t quite think of anything.

[00:02:26] Rune: I don’t even know what we meant by that back when we wrote that note. So, please, Otto, if you have any definition of what a game is, or how we can sort of kick off this episode, the mic is yours.

[00:02:38] Otto: Sure, and I think a game, to me, at least, so I think, it’s, interesting because the, the word has a different meaning in Swedish, and in English, so in English it’s the same word, but in Swedish it’s the, [00:03:00] the, sort of game that is a card game or a video game or something is different from playing, that kind of sort of game.

[00:03:08] Otto: So, going by the English I guess, then, I think anything that would be considered I think interactive in some way and probably that you can win or gain something from it. I was thinking first that maybe the definition is that you can lose it or something like that. But, thinking about that, have you played Garry’s Mod?

[00:03:36] Rune: No.

[00:03:37] Otto: So it’s sort of a sandbox game for the Half-Life game, games. So, what it is, is that, you basically, it’s almost like a level editor for Half-Life. So you can just, you start on, just pick a map, and then it’s just completely empty, and then you can [00:04:00] just spawn in assets, and do what you want with them, and, you know, do all kinds of things, like level editing, and stuff like that, and that’s the whole, like, game.

[00:04:10] Otto: But, I was thinking, if that sorta doesn’t have a challenge, then is it not a game? But, I guess then it has also multiple air features, so I guess then at least the multiplayer section would be considered a game, because, you know, you can troll on servers and stuff and you can make that a sort of a game. Or you could, sort of challenge yourself to build something, or, yeah.

[00:04:40] Otto: But, I guess, so, just, I think maybe the interactive part and that you can interact with others makes a game.

[00:04:51] Walking Simulators: Are They Really Games?

[00:04:51] Otto: And I think the thing that I’m, if anything would be considered not a game, then I would say, [00:05:00] for example, Walking Simulators feels, to me, not like a game, but rather like a museum, almost. Like you don’t, if it were a movie instead or just recorded gameplay, nothing would change.

[00:05:17] Otto: Maybe, I guess you could say if there is some puzzle or something, then like it would be with Myst. The difficulty would be part of the game. Like your experiences can be unique depending on how difficult it was for you to solve this or that puzzle or something like that, But usually it’s go here, press E, go there, press E, and then there’s just a voiceover that, you know, sobs about something, usually.

[00:05:46] Rune: Do you have any walking sims in, in particular you’re thinking about? I have played 2. but go ahead. Do you have any one in particular you’re thinking about?

[00:05:55] Otto: So, I think, yeah, the first one that I really, the first [00:06:00] walking sim that I played that, it was before walking simulator was a term, I think. So, it’s called Dear Esther, if I remember correctly. And, when I saw the trailer stuff, it was a lot of…

[00:06:18] Otto: the content was about story and stuff and at the time there was no like characters or anything in the, the trailers so I didn’t think about that because I’ve never I had never played that walking sim before. So I thought oh man, is gonna be a great game. I love the story, this is gonna be amazing. And then when I played it It’s just pushing W, and then just staring it through the level, and it’s not like it’s a ten ten minute thing. Like, 2, three hours, like, in it, I’m thinking, like, where is the gameplay? I’m, I’m waiting here for something to do. But I was thinking, [00:07:00] you know, maybe it’s an intro section, there’s some story, and then, you know, it goes longer and longer, and you sort of have because you’re longing for, to have some story or something,

[00:07:09] Otto: But it just never comes, and, so that was the first, you know, when, I really started getting disappointed with walking simulators, I guess.

[00:07:20] Otto: But another, better example of it is, what is it called, is it, not Beginner’s Guide, it’s Stanley Parable. Have you played that?

[00:07:36] Rune: no. It, it is so weird. The types of game we, games we play seems to be, we, we don’t seem to play games, the same games at all.

[00:07:47] Otto: Yeah, Yeah, absolutely, that’s, But that’s sort of what makes this a fun duo, I think. But, Yeah. I think garry’s Mod, at no, not Garry’s Mod, What was it [00:08:00] called? Not Beginner’s Guide, it was called The Stanley Parable. Anyhow, so that’s a walking simulator, I would say. But I would call that a game, more of a game, so I guess, to answer the there is a, spectrum, it’s not a, binary, but rather, like, how much of a game is it?

[00:08:21] Otto: If we’re talking about video games at least. And I think stan, the Stanley Parable, goes very high on that, or this way, depending on where you’re looking, on that scale. Because, so that works in the way that it’s not just, you go from A to B, and then, it’s just a linear path, there’s always these lines that the narrator is gonna say, and, you know.

[00:08:49] Otto: But rather, it’s super clever. So, in, in my mind at least. So, the way works is you go through an empty office, and then the narrator says [00:09:00] something about it, he narrates the main character. And then you come to a set 2 and he says, and then Stanley, the main character’s name, walks through the door on the right, and you can do that, but you can also walk through the door on the left. And then, after walking a couple meters, he just teleports you back and says, Okay, let’s try this again. He through the door on the left, and then you go to the right. And then you sort of defy the narrator as you go, and he gets more and more pissed. Or, there’s one section with a broom closet where you can just go, in there, there’s nothing there, and you can just, stand there, and the narrator sort of gets frustrated that you just won’t move through the story. And then eventually, you start over the level, and then he has, boarded up the broom closet.

[00:09:51] Otto: And there’s, like, tons of these, like, hidden, I mean, I thought it was gonna like, Oh, this is gonna be a fun thing that’s gonna [00:10:00] take an hour to play. But I think I played that for maybe 10 hours, and I’m still not sure I’ve gone through all of the paths. Because, as you go, you have all these choices to go this door or that door, you can just jump off the path, and, you know, there’s a lot of fun things.

[00:10:18] Otto: So I think the, the uniqueness, perhaps, is what makes it more of a game. That, a movie, you could, like, by the frame, you could define exactly this. Is the movie. Exactly these frames, exactly this audio, whatever. This is the movie. But a game, it feels like it has to be different, at least for every person who plays it, that it’s, you know, it’s, either difficulty or challenge or something, has to be different with it, I guess.

[00:10:56] Rune: I mean I’m just thinking like, [00:11:00] for me to play those games where there are too many options that that’s like a Warning sign like my sort of OCD where I want to tick things off, but it’s funny because i’m making a game now, which I really want you to just play it once and maybe put it away for a couple of years and come back and play it again and have a completely different experience because of all the choices and stuff, and even the way I designed some quests and so on at this point is that they trigger based on stuff you’ve done, so…

[00:11:30] Rune: and I can imagine someone like me who want to have everything sort of lists and stuff like you have to do this to do this that that’s gonna maybe drive them nuts but hopefully a player won’t even know that so you just play it and then these side quests and so on are being triggered naturally and you won’t even know that you have missed 10 side quests But you can’t miss anything. The idea is that you should always be able to do everything. But anyway, my point is it it sounds It sounds like a game that will be quite [00:12:00] challenging for me to play, but it sounds really cool though with this whole narrator thingy.

[00:12:04] Rune: I think there’s, I have played a game I love the theme music for, for Transistor. I mentioned that on this podcast before, I love listening to that, that theme, that music. And they made Hades? I think that has a narrator, but I can’t remember now. But I’ve heard about a game with a narrator like the one you described, it’s probably the one you talked about. But I was gonna give a little bit of walking sim, experience from me and that’s the the 2 walking sims I played is Firewatch and Gone Home. So these 2 games are way more mainstream I would say. I have, I, maybe, I, I think they’re quite mainstream because I heard about both of them from Kinda Funny podcast, and that’s a little bit more mainstream podcast, I would say, [00:13:00] one of the, you know, bigger ones. So, I was sort of recommended playing these games by listening to those podcasts, and then, I played Firewatch, so that was my first walking sim, so I never played anything like that before, and I wasn’t quite sure what to expect and but the way I played it it was it I went to I was in Sweden during the summer and I went to our summer house in the middle of nowhere and I started playing this game and it is damn spooky I don’t know if it’s intended to be a spooky game, but I was so scared sitting there playing this alone and even though it’s a walking sim, I think you know, I said this many times when the first scene in Half-Life when you look in a direction you may miss something or, you see this professor standing there.

[00:13:51] Rune: I’m actually playing Black Mesa, the one you’re recommending right now. But you can look to the left and then he’s standing there. But if you didn’t look to the left, you didn’t see him. Or there’s these [00:14:00] robots that walk through and you’re just sitting in this gondola going through this factory, right?

[00:14:03] Rune: And you can, you can miss everything if you look down to the floor. And I think these things are so cool. And that’s my experience with Firewatch. That, at least I don’t think it’s scripted. It felt very natural that I was walking out of this, have you ever played it or heard about it?

[00:14:24] Otto: Yeah, I’ve been wanting to play it, but I haven’t.

[00:14:28] Rune: Well, I won’t spoil it, but anyway, I walk out from a place and I look up and then it was something there and it felt extremely natural that I saw that because I looked up. Maybe it was scripted and triggered by the circumstances, but it felt super natural, that I saw that because I did that and yeah, it’s a really, I thought it was super spooky.

[00:14:52] Rune: And then, so I had a really good experience with that, so my first taste of walking sims were really good. And [00:15:00] then I played Gone Home and I didn’t like it at all, even though I think that’s a little bit more popular game. It’s a more popular game than Firewatch, maybe. but I do think, well, you know me a little bit nowadays, Otto, and I’m sort of into conspiracy theories and stuff like that.

[00:15:17] Rune: I think that’s fun. So I think maybe that’s why, Firewatch felt more like a game for me than Gone Home, I can’t, I can barely remember what Gone Home was about, and I also have a feeling that there was a lot of reading in Gone Home and for me when I play video games, sometimes I’m just not in the mood of reading anything.

[00:15:38] Rune: But, and I, I think some of, a lot of it is also voice acted in Gone Home, but there’s also parts you have to read by yourself if I remember correctly. Maybe it’s not that, that, that’s the case. Maybe that’s not the case but nonetheless I did, it did not click with me at all and after that, that sort of turned me off on walking sims and I actually tried one more which I think is a [00:16:00] walking sim but I can barely remember what it what what the name is. Something with Elon Fitch, something along those lines.

[00:16:08] Rune: I think the premise is that you are totally alone in a village, and everyone is gone. The Finding of Elon Fitch, I feel it’s a chinese…

[00:16:20] Otto: What Remains of Edith Finch.

[00:16:22] Rune: Okay, there we go.

[00:16:24] Rune: So I started playing that one, but this was after going home, and I just didn’t feel like it. However, I would like to go back to that one and see if it would work better this time around.

[00:16:34] Rune: Because that’s the thing with games, sometimes it doesn’t click and then you can go back and it works just fine. But that’s my experience with walking sims, and I guess I disagree in terms of, I do think they are games but I suppose then again, it’s all about that spectrum you mentioned and also what I was thinking about as you were talking was these [00:17:00] graphic novels which are huge here in Japan and that’s how I started making the Red Colony games because I thought man I want to play these graphic novels that are all over Japan, but my Japanese is so bad so I can’t be bothered to play them and read everything. But those games are you know, there’s no gameplay whatsoever, it’s just dialogues and then options and options and options. So what are those and I guess interactive book because you have options, right?

[00:17:31] Otto: Yeah,

[00:17:32] Rune: Don’t know, is it a game? I feel that’s more like a stretch than, than walking sims, because the, the graphic novels are literally just text and pictures.

[00:17:44] Otto: Yeah. Good question, but I think also there’s another layer to, to games I suppose. That there is the, the spectrum of how much of a game they actually are, and then there is the [00:18:00] spectrum of how they’re perceived I think. So, I think with Walking Sims, Maybe they are games, I’m not 100 percent convinced, but I would say also that the perception, I’ve played Gone Home as well, actually, but the perception is sort of, to me, at least, I haven’t made this game, so take this with a grain of salt, I’m just some schmuck sitting on the internet, so, my thoughts are not facts, but to me it feels a little bit lazy to do, like, a walking sim.

[00:18:40] Otto: With the exception of Stanley Parable, I guess. Because, to me it like you’ve done the story, you’ve done the environment, you’ve done a lot of the functionality. But you just forgot to, like, implement the final piece, which is, like, the actual gameplay. So, I don’t know, if you would, [00:19:00] depending on the story and context and, and stuff, what if, if you would take Gone Home or something and then you would maybe do something like you have a cat that you have to keep alive for the For the whole, whole game, and then, you know, you have to get food for it, or you have to, you know, empty the litter, I don’t know, something.

[00:19:23] Otto: Then you would just add a little bit of gameplay to, that sort of distracts you from the story, so then you sort of have to keep both of those rolling at the same time, to progress in the story while you have to do this gameplay part. And then you would have, What I would say is like a fully fledged game, so why not just do that, because it feels like, to me, it feels like, especially when there’s no, it’s a walking sim, okay, fine, there’s only story, okay, I guess, fine.[00:20:00]

[00:20:00] Otto: But then, there’s very little voice acting, or it’s not completely voice acted. Okay, so you skipped out on the gameplay part, and then, you skipped out on the voice acting, so you just, you know, at this day and age, you could just generate those with ChatGPT. Like, write a big ass novel of, like, Oh, I’m so sad my dad died, or, you know, something.

[00:20:26] Otto: To me, you know, feels like there’s just some, and that might just be the perception of it, but I feel like you could change that very easily.

[00:20:37] Rune: Hmm.

[00:20:39] Otto: But that’s also something that, with, What Remains of Edith Finch, I, if I do remember correctly, then I played that a little bit and then I got to some section where you were a cat.

[00:20:56] Otto: So, that, you know, [00:21:00] walked outside the the window of some room that you were trying to get inside, like some Myst puzzle esque. But that was also sort of an interesting mechanic, but it was like being on rails, so you couldn’t just run around and jump and climb wherever you wanted. You have to, you could just push W, and then when you get to a ledge or something, you click some button, if I remember correctly, and then you jump to the next ledge.

[00:21:27] Otto: And so on, and then I quit playing it, because at one of these places I got stuck as being the cat, because it wouldn’t trigger to jump to the next whatever section to trigger the next dialogue.

[00:21:39] Rune: Hmm.

[00:21:41] Otto: So that also, it feels like, a walking simulator feels, in so many aspects, like a game -light. Like, you’ve scaled down the, the actual interactive part, because, perceptionally, perceptionally, at least, it feels like that’s the hard part to get right.

[00:21:58] Otto: So therefore, you just cut it out, and [00:22:00] then, what you’re left with is sort of like like the pitch for the game, but there’s nothing, no content in there, it’s just or, you have the story, but not, you don’t play the story, you just listen to it. It could have been an audiobook or a video instead.

[00:22:17] Rune: True. I was thinking now about these, graphic novels, the, the sick part is that they, they sell so well, and their big team is making them. And they’re beautiful. I mean they tend usually quite hentai and perverted but nonetheless, they are a very beautiful art and it is a shame. I was thinking now what you’re talking about it they’re being lazy and then I was thinking in this case with these graphic novels, I think that it’s just greed It must be like you make you sell that many copies you make that much money. Surely you could implement some gameplay and make it even better But why would you because they keep selling, [00:23:00] and obviously there’s an audience for it who just, I guess, just want these, interactive books, if you will.

[00:23:07] Rune: And…

[00:23:07] Otto: Yeah.

[00:23:08] Rune: Because it makes no sense, like, you can go to like a game shop here in Tokyo and they sell these to the PlayStation Vita, even, there’s loads of them. So, surely there is, I mean, wouldn’t it be easier to just put them on the smartphone? I guess maybe they are on smartphones as well, but then you make less money on the smartphone, maybe?

[00:23:28] Rune: So you, ah, fuck, I don’t know. But I feel like there, there must be some sort of, greed behind it, as well. I’m not sure about, walking, Gone Home and Firewatch and all those games. Cause, I mean, those are quite, it’s a bombastic games in terms of development and the way they look and so on, if all assets are made by the team and not asset flips, at least in Firewatch, it looks very unique, but nonetheless, when I think about this, graphic novels, I would love to [00:24:00] see gameplay in those novels.

[00:24:03] Rune: I mean, not to toot my own horn, but that’s why I did Red Colony. I was hoping someone would tag along and copy me and make those types of games, but nothing yet, so. But it would be cool.

[00:24:15] Otto: Yeah, exactly. Well, I guess I haven’t played that many visual novels. I think I played one or two, but it feels like at least, I don’t know, this is just my perception, but I feel, to me at least, visual novel feel at least, sort of honest with what they are. Walking Sims feels like you’re trying to, like, tag along and get the audience of 3D games where you can go in three dimension, dimensions, but you won’t, like, commit to doing what these amazing games do, which is have the gameplay part in it. But visual novels, at least, [00:25:00] they’re very honest with, Okay, this is just a text adventure, it’s basically a book with different endings.

[00:25:07] Rune: True.

[00:25:09] Rune: I was, when I played, what remains of Elon musk, what did you say? Elon Fitch?

[00:25:16] Otto: Ha ha, Yes.

[00:25:18] Rune: What remains of Elon Musk.

[00:25:20] Rune: No, but was it Elon Fitch? Elon?

[00:25:27] Otto: Edith Finch.

[00:25:29] Rune: Wow. All right. What remains of him. When I played that, I was thinking…

[00:25:33] Otto: Her, I think.

[00:25:34] Otto: Ha ha ha!

[00:25:35] Rune: I have played a game but I played it for a very few minutes but I was when I saw the trailer, I remember wow, this looks like some sort of Fallout game. This looks awesome so I what you talked about before it sort of feels like you’re tricking people into believing it is a game but it’s it really isn’t and I was quite disappointed with that because I thought it was going to be like a some sort of Fallout type of [00:26:00] situation and, and the game looks beautiful and yeah, maybe you’re right there like it, if they spent time making it turning it to an actual game, I think that would be really cool.

[00:26:14] Otto: Yeah, and I…

[00:26:15] Rune: Seems to have an interesting story and everything, just no gameplay.

[00:26:20] Otto: Well I think at least, you know, it feels, at least to me it’s easy to say this now sitting here like a schmuck and you know, not making the game myself, of course, but it feels to me like you could add some thing, like add a, I dunno, duck family that you have to take care of or something, and then in the end you get to choose if they live or die or, you know, something. I mean. At least if you take, what was this game called?

[00:26:52] Otto: It was this game about the like the butterfly effect.

[00:26:57] Rune: Uh, Heavy Rain? [00:27:00]

[00:27:00] Otto: No, but yes that also sort of works, but it was this game. Let me quickly check here.

[00:27:13] Rune: Until Dawn? Bet you’re gonna say some really obscured weird game I’ve never heard of.

[00:27:23] Otto: No, I think it’s sort of known…

[00:27:27] Otto: Ah, God damn it. Oh, here it is, Life is Strange. Have you played that?

[00:27:32] Rune: I’ve heard about it. Let me i’m gonna look too. Anyway, what about it?

[00:27:39] Otto: So, basically, what you do is you play, have you seen the movie The Butterfly Effect?

[00:27:47] Rune: Yeah, ages ago is that with the…

[00:27:49] Otto: Yeah.

[00:27:49] Rune: That ‘70sn Show guy. Okay.

[00:27:54] Otto: So basically the premise of the movie and the game is [00:28:00] basically you have this, you start at some point in the game and then you can actually sort of, things happen in the story and then you can go back and change, I think you can go back maybe 30 seconds or something and then you can change some action of the scene you’re currently in.

[00:28:24] Otto: So say that you, you know, walk on a banana peel and you slip and die, then you, you know, reverse 30 seconds and then you, you know, throw it in the paper basket or something. Something like that, but more serious stuff. Anyhow, that, at least, I would almost classify it as a walking sim, because you can walk around and you can talk to people and then, you know, make choices and that’s the game.

[00:28:51] Otto: But that, I think, absolutely commits to making good gameplay, whether you like the game or [00:29:00] not. So you have this whole turning back time thing, and then you have a lot of, like, choices, like how you wanna interact with characters. Do I wanna be angry this guy? Yeah, also, comparing to walking simulators, there are actual characters in this game.

[00:29:18] Otto: You have a main character, and you have a lot of NPCs that you can talk to, and you have a lot of, you know, characters and development, and it says something about society, and, you know, a lot of these things, and then in the end, you can choose either this or that, and then you sort of get to decide how the game ends.

[00:29:38] Otto: And, you know, that’s something I think that, it feels so weird that walking simulators don’t have, they have focused so much on story, but they don’t have characters, almost. You know, you have like audio tapes scattered around [00:30:00] the building, but it’s, it’s basically like doing what we’re doing now. just recording something that we say, put it in the game, press E to play, and that’s it. It’s an MP3 player, almost.

[00:30:14] Rune: Yeah, but Life is Strange, I looked at some pictures of the game while you were talking. You said you played the first one.

[00:30:23] Otto: I haven’t played the one, but I have, I don’t know if you could count but there is this one guy I follow on YouTube who teaches Japanese, so he played it dubbed in Japanese and then he translated and explained the grammar as he played it.

[00:30:40] Rune: I see.

[00:30:40] Otto: So I’ve seen the gameplay, through that perspective, so I sort of have an idea of what it’s like to play it, I guess.

[00:30:48] Rune: But, did I misunderstand you? But you thought that Life is Strange is not, like, a game. Or, you said, [00:31:00] you don’t care about the characters. Like…

[00:31:03] Otto: No, no, no, I, I compliment it, I would say that Like, the bad version would be, like, doing Gone Home. It’s just a bunch of mp3 files, and then, the, the good, the best version of uh, walking Simulator would be Life is Strange.

[00:31:18] Rune: Yeah, because I was thinking that, like, that sounds like the best version too, because, if you can turn back time, as you said, if you die in the game and you, obviously, you wouldn’t care to turn back time if you don’t care about the characters, but if they caught your attention and you care about the characters, you would want to turn back time to make it right, to make sure they survive. Huh, interesting, yeah. Yeah, well, I think you’re right, but it also reminded me, I was watching, is it called Bear Grylls or something? I think it’s Australian or British guy who’s in the forest.

[00:31:52] Otto: Yes, the guy drinking urine.

[00:31:54] Otto: Haha.

[00:31:54] Rune: Yeah, so I was watching an episode with my son, and it’s an interactable [00:32:00] Netflix show.

[00:32:01] Otto: Oh, I’ve, yes, I’ve played that too.

[00:32:03] Rune: Yeah.

[00:32:04] Rune: So it kind of sounds like that. But yeah, I don’t know.

[00:32:09] Rune: For me, it’s doing that on Netflix. Man, I do not like those interactable films, except the one, that was kind of like the Black Mirror stuff. I think they made one, one episode, because my wife and I were very much invested in that, the Black Mirror show. But when I watched this with my son, I felt like, it was sort of, interrupting, I don’t know.

[00:32:35] Rune: I kind of suck at watching movies, I guess, when I actually sit down and watch them I get so sucked in that it just felt like I was interrupted by having these choices I sort of stressed out too, but with an interactable game I mean with a walking sim you are in charge all the time. So it would it makes more sense, I think to have these like in Life is Strange if you can turn back time and all that stuff but when I watched it on Netflix, i’m not a [00:33:00] big fan of it, but…

[00:33:03] Otto: I would actually say, the opposite. I would, I fucking loved it.

[00:33:09] Otto: Uh, you know, I, I, think that sort of, gets me to a a sort of a conclusion about, what is a game. And I think, if you have The start, and then you have the finish, And, then the more, like, individual choices you have, the more I would consider it to be a game.

[00:33:32] Otto: And, you know, say like Gone Home. I don’t know how much, how, how big it is. I’ve seen, I’ve played it a little bit, but I really got sick of it, but you know, from that you have like, opening the front door. And then you have like, opening this door and opening that door. Then eventually you listen to the final MP3 file and then the game over.

[00:33:58] Otto: Uh, but if you [00:34:00] compare, maybe it takes an hour before you can make a meaningful choice in that game. But I feel at least those Bear Grylls, like, DVD menu esque games, at least then you have like a here is the start, you have a clear objective, and then you, you know, get to choose which one, which video you get to I guess.

[00:34:21] Otto: But, I mean, in the story of the episode, at it’s, you know, win or lose.

[00:34:28] Otto: Feels a lot more clear, and a lot of The choice density is a lot thicker than it is with, for example, Gone Home, in my experience, at least. And the same with, for example, Life is Strange, or, you know, yeah, you get to I mean, the more linear it is, more it is like a, video or something like that, and I think that’s what makes it less of a game for me.[00:35:00]

[00:35:00] Rune: Yeah, I think maybe you, you hit the nail on the head there. Maybe that’s what makes a game a game. If there is no options there, that takes the gamey stuff away from it. Because then, but in that, regard, I guess, graphic novels are more like games than Gone Home or, yeah, Gone Home.

[00:35:22] Otto: Yeah, I think, in my opinion, I mean, in visual novels, I guess you have the, I don’t know, I haven’t played the, that much, but at least if you have choices about which boy to date, or, you know, whatever it is.

[00:35:36] Rune: Yeah, the objective is usually to get laid, so…

[00:35:39] Otto: Yeah, exactly. but, you know, at least there it feels like, that’s also something with walking simulat This becomes like a shit on walking simulators episode apparently, but, you know, it feels like a little bit, like, that’s also something that walking simulators [00:36:00] just don’t, haven’t bothered to do like set up a a clear objective because usually it’s just oh you tell this story and blah blah blah and my dog gets sick and la la la but there’s no like your mission is this. I mean, it doesn’t matter if you really did do this or that, but wouldn’t it be nice if you at least, you know, affected something in the lore of the game?

[00:36:28] Otto: Like, your, I don’t know, dog is sick, or you, have to fix your house, or whatever it is, and then, you know, at the end of it, you have changed this, or you have, in Gone Home, I think, nothing changes in the lore, you have just, like, understood what happened to your sister, I think, who ran away home. So you haven’t even changed anything. You could just read a synopsis and that would be the same as the game [00:37:00] almost.

[00:37:03] Rune: Yeah, fuck walking sims, nah…

[00:37:05] Otto: Ha!

[00:37:07] Rune: Ah, but that’s true, I mean, yeah I never thought about, I mean, like we said on top of the episode, I never really thought about any of this, except we, one of us have written it down in a document back in the day, so…

[00:37:23] Rune: But I, I do like, I like to come to some sort of conclusion, and then, that we don’t do this. You know, you nuance things into oblivion and walk away from it without coming to a final answer. So I, I, I like to, what’s I call when the judge have a hammer and hit the table and club it in, sort of club in the definition of of a game is when you have options. So walking sim is not a game. You’re out, I think.

[00:37:52] Otto: Yeah. totally. Or, you know, it has to have, having the main, like, [00:38:00] gameplay, I think the mechanic itself isn’t necessarily the, the, the determining factor. You know, walking could be a meaningful thing that gives options. For example, Stanley Parable. I don’t know how many choices you have in that, but wouldn’t surprise me if would be like two, three hundred at least, throughout the game, I think, If I find it, I’m gonna find a chart of all the choices you can make in Stanley Parable and display here on screen.

[00:38:32] Otto: Uh, but, yeah, I think it’s, I really tried to find all of the endings, but I think it’s, it’s, like so many things you can do and things that, uh, you know, this affect this and then you’re up this branch and then you sort of, have to restart the whole game to go to this other branch. It’s really, really fascinating.

[00:38:52] Otto: So I think the gameplay mechanic walking isn’t necessarily the, the problem, I guess. [00:39:00] And, the same with, like, visual novels, like, reading and clicking is the main gameplay mechanic. But you could also make a, visual novel that would just be a novel and you just click next page. And that would also fall not in the category of a game, to me. So I think, as you say, options probably is something that’s, you know, is what determines, is it a game or is it not. Yeah. Feels like, yeah, I think that’s sort of what frustrates me about walking simulators. This whole, it feels dishonest in a way, that you, sort of, you wanna latch on to the label of it being a game, but then at the time you just fail to do the basic thing that makes it a game.

[00:39:59] Otto: It’s [00:40:00] like, if you would do a movie and then there are no, I guess there is actually, I’ve heard about this documentary that does sort of this. So I don’t know what the hell I would categorize that as, but it’s I think it’s called Samsara or something like that. It’s a documentary that has no voiceover. So it’s just a series of, like, I think it’s something like where they film a iPhone factory and then they film something else and, you, know, you, the feeling you get for, from seeing all these poor people being locked into a iPhone factory, you’re working 16 hours a day is sort of what tells the story, I guess, but it feels a little bit like that, that you want to make a movie, but you don’t have any characters, you don’t have any lines. [00:41:00] You don’t have any twist endings. You know, it’s just surveillance footage almost.

[00:41:07] Rune: Oh, so yeah. But yeah, that’s another thing though, cause the experience in of itself could you, but I suppose it’s different. You know when you hear people playing for example, well, Soulsborne games and so on. The experience is the whole, like everyone’s experience is different because they go to different places and so on.

[00:41:32] Rune: Even though there is no story and, well there is story but, yeah. I don’t know what else to say.

[00:41:45] Otto: Ha. Yeah, what else, But I guess, you know, for myself, if I would want to make a game, I think [00:42:00] it would be so interesting to talk to somebody who makes walking simulators, to know what they’re thinking. To me, it feels a little bit like to me it feels so, in the worst sense of the word artsy like, yeah It’s like a modern art exactly that’s the issue with Simulator for me.

[00:42:25] Otto: It’s the same thing with like, you know, you have these classical pieces, like take the Sistine chapel or whatever it’s called in the Vatican. And you have this masterpiece that, you know, sort of captures the human form and, you know, this, is the David statue that, Michelangelo cut out of the marble?

[00:42:48] Otto: Like you can see from some of these marble statues, you can see like, it looks like actual fabric, but cut out of like solid marble. And then you have these, [00:43:00] Jackson Pollock’s shit, where you have like you just throw a bucket of, paint on the canvas, and then sell it for 40 billion dollars or something. It’s like, you wanna do art, but you just fail to do the actual thing that art does, which is like communicate an idea of something. It says something about like, you know, either depict the human condition or something, or know, tells a story, or you know, we used to have paintings of battlefields that are so accurate that we use it as a historical reference. And then you have this, like, it’s a white canvas and it’s a black line somewhere across it, sells for 10 million or something.

[00:43:45] Otto: It’s like you fail to do the actual thing that is the art form, what you all want to aspire to. You want aspire to make the highest art possible.

[00:43:57] Otto: And sure, everybody can’t do it, I [00:44:00] certainly can’t. But, with Walking Simulator it feels, the same, like you, you have this, you know, you wanna latch on to, to, the, the art that is games, but you fail to do the game part, and that’s fine, it’s fine you wanna do that, but it’s called a video, not a game.

[00:44:22] Rune: So, so, what you’re saying is that the Walking Sims are the game were, the game industry’s version of pretentious artist who claim that anything can be art, man.

[00:44:34] Otto: Yeah, exactly, exactly, so that’s, you know, that’s why it would be so interesting to talk to somebody who makes walking simulators, and are passionate about it. Because I could be totally wrong, and there is a lot of depth and stuff there, that I’m not seeing. Because that’s, again, part of the, the perception spectrum, I guess.

[00:44:59] Otto: So that would [00:45:00] be interesting to see what do they, why do they call it a game, and why do, you know, the deal with it? Why is this something you want to create, and why don’t you want to add more stuff Is it like, you lack the time, or, you know, is it because you can’t, or is it because you It’s an active choice not to include the stuff that I would consider makes it more of a game.

[00:45:24] Rune: Interesting. Before we started recording, I told you, I just mentioned to you that I have sort of tapped out a little bit from the gaming industry right now because of Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. And when there’s a game that I’m super excited about, I go offline, like more than usual. So I, I feel like a couple of years ago when the walking, so this is just a feeling right?

[00:45:51] Rune: It’s no facts here. so, I feel like walking sims were a hot topic, let’s say, four or five years ago [00:46:00] and that yeah, maybe they are a bit pretentious and a little bit artsy partsy and yeah, but I wonder if are they still being made like I wonder if maybe it came and went that whole thing and maybe that’s a sign in some way that it’s not games and it’s, it didn’t survive in this gaming landscape, sort of what we meant, I mentioned in some episode many times ago when I said truth will always sort of find a way or whatever is real or the truth that’s going to survive, and walking sims didn’t survive, but hey, I don’t know, maybe there are still a lot of walking sims coming out, but my feeling is that it was like a, it came and went, and it was very arty partsy, and it served a purpose for a short period of time.

[00:46:54] Rune: It was something new and something interesting, something that had never been done before for sure. So, [00:47:00] kudos to that, but maybe it’s, in the grand scheme of things they were not meant to survive in the industry And then we will find out soon that it’s like hundreds of them coming out every day so then i’m wrong, but my feeling is that they came and went. But if there is someone who makes them then yeah, I think that would be very interesting, those will be interesting questions to ask, especially like if when we think about this, The Remaining of Fitch and, Gone Home, for example. Yeah, like those games are so beautiful and they’re so like, borderline AAA. So there’s just like, why not? Why not just add that last piece?

[00:47:40] Otto: Yeah, exactly, that sort of, I agree, that adds to the, the frustration, that, you know, they’ve done something so good, and that goes for Gone Home too, it’s a beautiful game, it’s amazing graphics, it’s amazing audio, it’s amazing you know, [00:48:00] performance, all of it, but, it’s like, just a little bit, you know, I just thought of that, you know, in real life we have a walking simulator that’s managed to turn itself into an actual game. It’s called golf. At least there, you walk from hole to hole. It’s just the goal is from 1 to 18, but then at least you have, you know, get the ball in the hole. If you would add…

[00:48:27] Otto: If you would mod Gone Home and just, do a putting green before you can proceed to the next MP3 file, that would make it a game!

[00:48:37] Rune: If you would just, Mod the game and add a shotgun and some fucking zombies, but that was always a little, that was probably rude in the game yeah, I suppose they’re trying to tell a story there I can’t remember what the game was about because I didn’t finish it, but something tells me that Zombies would is not what they needed in that game.[00:49:00]

[00:49:00] Otto: I vote for a putting green, so if anyone makes that mod I will happily review it on this podcast.

[00:49:07] Rune: Yeah, or in Gone Home, maybe just have like, well, don’t, oh, that would be options and that, that would classify itself as a game according to you. Like, it’s, imagine you’re walking around in this house and you have a, a dart board and you can throw a dart for whatever reason and pick up some trash…

[00:49:27] Otto: Exactly.

[00:49:28] Rune: …maybe.

[00:49:28] Rune: Maybe you walk into a room and he says, ah, my mom left a letter here somewhere, but I can’t remember where I put it and then you have to clean up the room. That would…

[00:49:37] Otto: Yeah, it could be something like that. Exactly. It could, you know, tie into the lore. I mean even that, Is it called unpacked? Uh, let’s see here. it was, uh, game about unpacking, like, you are moving and then you, Unpacking, yeah, obviously it’s called Unpacking, but anyhow, it’s [00:50:00] about unpacking. So you have moved to a new place. And the goal of the game, as I understand I haven’t played it, but I would love to, is that you unpack the boxes, the moving boxes, put the shoes in the shoe rack, put the toothbrush in the you know, bathroom so on. And then that sort of tells a story, but then at least there’s a game, gameplay element there, that, so you have to where everything goes, and sure, it sounds easy, you’re gonna put the, the clothes on the clothes rack, but there’s all sorts of, fun, story elements apparently that you have in there, and there’s also a bit of a culture element to it, so, for example, some people bring shoes into the house, and some people leave them the hallway, you know, some people have the washing machine in the kitchen, some have them in the bathroom. So there’s apparently, I heard there’s a lot of stuff that they you know, didn’t expect that there were, issues because some players from different parts of the world didn’t understand [00:51:00] how to complete this level because putting this thing here doesn’t make sense in their country, for example. So…

[00:51:08] Rune: And, and the purpose is to figure out who you are. Is that the sort…?

[00:51:13] Otto: No, I think it’s also sort this, you know, you don’t, that’s also, I would classify this as a game just because of that element, fit the right thing, it’s like, basically like this, I’ll show some stock footage in the background, but imagine, yeah, you’re this kid and you wanna put the square thing in the square hole, the star thing in the star shape.

[00:51:34] Otto: it’s basically that, but, for you know, don’t put the I think you can put a toaster in the bathtub and there’s some funny moment I saw from the trailers, that’s kinda funny, but, you know, put the right thing where it’s supposed to be, but then you don’t change the story, so, it’s rather that you what, you know, I think it’s something like, Oh, all of a sudden, next place you move to, [00:52:00] maybe, there’s no dad’s things anymore, or something.

[00:52:03] Otto: But I think then the difficulty of the game, makes the story that it’s gonna be different for everyone, because, this person figured out immediately where all of the hair things were, and maybe if you’re a guy, then you don’t get that, or something. Whatever it is.

[00:52:19] Rune: I was thinking as you were talking about it, that it sounds like, well, I was expecting that it’s just one house you’re moving into and you don’t know who you are. And then the last thing you do is to put up a mirror and sort of…

[00:52:31] Otto: Oh my god, that would be fucking amazing.

[00:52:34] Rune: Then I got annoyed about my own idea because then I thought I was probably gonna use a bullshit woke shit and then I was thinking that would be cool though.

[00:52:42] Otto: Ha!

[00:52:42] Rune: Like a, I mean, when you see yourself, you’re some, I don’t know, redneck trucker guy and then the shit you have put up in the house make no sense to who you are but that could be a big twist and so on, and then I sort of liked the idea again but, [00:53:00] ah, that…

[00:53:01] Otto: Yeah, man, I’m gonna fucking, I’m gonna keep that in my head for maybe. You know, that would be amazing, you know, you could do like everything from like, you. are the monster thing where you, you know, see a bunch of, I don’t know, this or that, and then eventually, oh shit, it’s you or, or maybe you could do something like, oh shit, you’re in prison, or something.

[00:53:25] Rune: Maybe you can Kojima the whole thing and hack into the user’s webcam so when you see yourself in the mirror, it turns on the webcam and you just see yourself. Ooh…

[00:53:35] Otto: Yeah, ha ha ha ha.

[00:53:38] Otto: Yeah, yeah, a lot of things you could do with that, I think.

[00:53:42] Otto: But that’s the thing with game, with fucking walking that there is so many, as we said earlier, that’s part of what’s so frustrating, that these are, in all honesty, so talented people, like, I couldn’t make Gone [00:54:00] Home. To be completely honest, I couldn’t make the 3D things, I couldn’t make the you know, all of the audio probably, there’s a lot of things that are just amazing.

[00:54:10] Otto: So, why not just go a little further and then just satisfy everybody? Or, it doesn’t have to be your kind of game, but at least it could be a game, you could do, ugh, you’re so close to something real. I mean, not joking, you could do a dartboard or fucking putting green and it would be like a real game, or maybe you have to have this amount of score on the dartboard to be able to progress or something.

[00:54:43] Otto: Arrgh! It annoys me so much. Oh.

[00:54:49] Rune: You could like I feel like we’re pissing on going home all the time and I none of us have actually played it, which…

[00:54:56] Otto: Ha ha ha ha!

[00:54:58] Rune: I was just thinking maybe there’s a cat in the [00:55:00] house and I remember the house was empty, so maybe you had to feed a cat and then you look through the fridge and all the food is old and then that’s to the lore that Whoa, now you know the house has been empty for a long time and you look at the date and then you can look at the calendar on the wall and you see that it just crosses until the May 25th and now it’s May 29th, well, whatever. Yeah, so that yeah, there was there’s a lot of things you could have added to make it turn it into a game but according to the House of Games, what is a game chart, Gone Home is not a game.

[00:55:37] Otto: Not a game.

[00:55:38] Rune: So on that note go home Gone Home. That was supposed to be a segway to find, wrapping up the episode unless you have something to say?

[00:55:48] Otto: Yes, yeah, I would say disclaimer, if the the author Gone Home to this I don’t hate you You made an amazing game, but you could just put in a putting [00:56:00] green something. Full disclosure, I did see a speedrun of it, once, after trying to, it. so I tried to play it, and I just got frustrated that it, you know, got nowhere to is what I felt like.

[00:56:16] Otto: Felt like nothing happened, and then I watched a playthrough. And, I’m not gonna spoil it, but the ending felt so fucking disappointing that I felt like, Oh, thank fuck that I didn’t complete this game. This ending, oh my god, like, make a game, ugh. But again, I don’t hate the guy or gal who made Gone Home.

[00:56:38] Otto: It’s, well done, I just feel like there’s potential there that you could make something amazing.

[00:56:46] Rune: Hmm. All right.

[00:56:51] Otto: Cool!

[00:56:54] Otto: Yes, yeah, I think that, that, that will do it. So, [00:57:00] leave a voicemail if you have opinions about walking simulators. Yeah, I should mention also, something uh, we did mention yesterday, during the episode that got, deleted, and butchered to hell, that we actually got a comment, so I’m gonna just read that again, so that…

[00:57:21] Rune: Otto, before we continue. We can’t make a fucking podcast episode, compare that to guys who made Gone Home.

[00:57:29] Otto: Yeah. Yeah. Heh heh heh. Well, at least, I would say, we’re honest with this is linear, we can’t there’s no alternate…

[00:57:37] Rune: …a game. If you’re listening…

[00:57:38] Otto: No, exactly, this is just like, imagine, like, we say like oh, this is a podcast about game development, and then there’s just, The recorded audio of a graphic card fan going for an hour. and we saying like, oh, this is something like uh, blah blah at least we’re this is, yeah.

[00:57:59] Otto: Heh [00:58:00] heh heh heh. heh. Yeah, honesty I guess is the point. Don’t market yourself as a game if it’s just linear. That’s what I want to put out there.

[00:58:14] Reading a Comment

[00:58:14] Otto: Yeah, but anyhow, we got a comment. A nice comment. Haha, take that Gone Home. Haha Okay, anyhow. Sorry Gone, it’s a great game. I love it. wiljman76, he spells his name kind interesting. I’ll display it on here, above my, me. But it says, awesome video for episode 65, which was the last episode. Awesome video. I’m a game designer and like this content on rumble. Keep up the great work. So, you know, that’s at least we’re doing the thing so uh heh…

[00:58:57] Rune: Thank you for your comment, [00:59:00] wiljman.

[00:59:00] Otto: Yes, thank you so much. Much appreciated. And, please, if, if, we’re doing the same shit that, Gone Home is please tell us so we can, fix it.

[00:59:13] Episode Outro

[00:59:13] Otto: Yeah, anyhow, don’t, don’t, troll on, creators of Gone Home, they’re probably nice people and deserve love and affection, So, yeah, if if the, creators want to come this show and explain, explain themselves, you know, Hahahaha if, if they wanna, you know, why did the game. Hahahaha.

[00:59:43] Rune: Don’t burn the bridge down! There’s still a small chance they might come on the show and explain what a walking sim is and why they do it.

[00:59:51] Otto: But seriously, I do wanna hear what the game is about. So, please, , come on the show. [01:00:00] I think there’s no chance that they’re coming on, but they’re most welcome to. I would love to hear it from their perspective as I said.

[01:00:07] Otto: Oh my God. Oof, I think, in hindsight, I think this was actually a better than one we did yesterday.

[01:00:16] Otto: So, happy about that.

[01:00:19] Otto: All right. so, send in the voicemail if you have any opinions, what else, leave a comment, love to hear what you feel about this episode, this Is just a bunch of bullshit or did you actually gain anything from listening to this? Would love to hear it.

[01:00:38] Otto: Yeah. thanks so much Rune for my amazing host as always. Thank you for Gone home for making a game. I still appreciate it. Thank you everyone for listening, and we will see you next week. Have a good one.

Podcast
Interview
Debate
Game Development
Indie Developer

--

--

Otto Wretling

Written by Otto Wretling

244 Followers

Writing about my podcast, game development, technology, language learning, and whatever else comes to my mind!

Help

Status

About

Careers

Press

Blog

Privacy

Terms

Text to speech

Teams